Syracuse Ska Forum

You can read the CNN report for one view of the protest.

I grew up in the Southwest US and have seen how critical to that economy immigrant labor is. They pick the vegetables, clear and wash tables in restaurants, do landscaping, menial construction work and staff the sweatshops, among other things. No one in the Southwest would argue that these people "steal jobs". That's just a collossal joke. They do the hard work and low pay jobs that non-immigrants don't want to do.

We can all agree that we need a better border policy and a sensible way to deal with immigrants that have already been here awhile. Criminalizing them is counter-productive, at best. And immoral at worst.

Your mileage may vary.

So it's wrong to criminalize ILLEGAL immigrants?

They came here illegally. Illegal means they went against the law. Going against the law is a crime.


I believe that if you want to come here do it legally. I am fully pro-immigration. This country was built on immigrants. Why should we say it's ok for so many undocumented people to just enter our country?

You know why the main arguement is they do jobs nobody else will? because the companies are paying them below legal wages. I think these businesses that use illegal immigrants for cheap labor should be penalized because what they're doing is illegal.

I've talked with a few people who are legal immigrants. One came from the Phillipines with their family in 1992. She and her family had to wait ten years to be citizens. They did it. They came over with 100 dollars to their name. Her parents worked hard to provide for their family and to show that they belonged. That's the key part of legal immigrants. They come and they work hard. They work hard for their families. They work hard to show that they "deserve" to be in America. They work harder than a lot of people who are born here.

It shows that illegal immigrants really want to be here and that they care about the country when they have rallies and drag the American flag on the ground and wave around Mexican flags.

There are plenty of people right now addicted to coke. Do we decriminalize that because there are so many of them and they are helpless?

Most of those rallies show people hoisting American flags high. But it's American to use the flag to express an opinion, so it really doesn't matter either way.

There is definitely an argument to be made that IMMIGRANTS, legal or not, help depress labor rates. That argument is as old as the country. But the problem is, what's better -- to pay lower wages to people IN America that spend most of it here or to people in China who do not? My own preference is for all people in America -- regardless of nationality -- to get paid better. But I don't exactly see corporate America on that bandwagon, do you?

I see two main issues here:
1) Making felons of illegal immigrants. That's crazy.
2) Some sort of reasonable amnesty program for people who have been living and working here for a long time. It makes zero sense to give these people little or no rights. That's hardly the American way.

Large numbers of immigrants have been "illegal" since our country began. It's silly how many people think this is simply a new and largely Hispanic problem. Look around in Syracuse alone. We have lots of non-Hispanic illegal immigrants. Heck, go up to Coleman's on Tipp Hill and be waited on by some illegal Irish (they're notorious for hiring them). Or is the problem that illegal Irish are white Europeans and these Hispanics are not?

No sane person is advocating eliminating border controls. But these people are here working because we let them and keep letting them. It's very hypocritical to pretend otherwise.

And for the record, growing up in LA, my redneck parents used to say, "ship them all back!". At least until I discovered my father's German ancestors in Canada snuck illegally into Michigan with thousands of other Germans and everyone looked the other way. It took 50 years for most of them to get around to becoming legal citizens. My parents were horribly embarassed and I bet more of you have backgrounds like that than anyone cares to admit ...

[quote="ReverendPhill"]
You know why the main arguement is they do jobs nobody else will? because the companies are paying them below legal wages. I think these businesses that use illegal immigrants for cheap labor should be penalized because what they're doing is illegal. [quote]

Most of the businesses who do that have some level of influence over the people who should punish them.

And I don't think people should work hard to earn the right to be an American. Anyone can be an American if they choce to be. I must be misinterpreting what you said but it now seems like you don't consider any hard-working people to be American.The "American Dream" doesn't mean you're not American until you have the picket fence, family and sports car.

White picket fence!

But what makes me angry about the issue is simple: Why the hell is it so hard for someone to become a "legal" america to the extant of them chosing to come to america "illegaly"?

The kicker is, it's easier to legally move here to America than it is in almost any other country.






Hardly. Nobody except U.S. citizens are American. I don't consider hard-working people to be American? Say what? Hard working...AMERICAN citizens are a freakin' backbone. I don't know what the American dream is. I don't care about the supposed American dream. The problem is sure they've been here years...they've been here ILLEGALLY. Hence the phrase ILLEGAL immigrant.


Danny, I don't like ANY illegal immigrant. Be it a Mexican, a German, a Canadian, Iranian, Irish whatever. You want in, do it LEGALLY.

Why is it so hard to get in? Because they only want to except people who are going to be productive members of society.

I understand that we let them in and are letting them stay but we shouldn't. I actually don't have that problem with my family having to sneak in the country. My great grandparents on both sides came to America legally. They went through the process and became legal citizens. They didn't sneak off a boat and show up.

Another thing, assimilation. If you want to come here to this country, learn the language. Even if it's shakey. I'm not gonna decide to move to another country that speaks a foreign language to me and not learn it.

I'm with you for the most part, Phil. I tend to be a very compassionate person, but I also tend to think that illegal immigrants (and in general, anyone working under-the-table) cause problems for everyone else in the labor force. Even setting aside that they're not paying in for things like Social Security and Medicare, they generally work for lower wages and lesser benefits or no benefits at all (which pulls down the standards for those of us working for an honest living). I agree with you that probably the easiest solution is to step up enforcement on the employers, not the employees - if the illegal immigrants can't find work here, either, they probably won't be here for too long, and once the word gets back, there won't be as many people coming. And give the penalties teeth, and enforce them.

And Danny - of course this isn't a new problem. But these days, it is largely a Mexican problem. The US - Mexico border is beyond porous, and the Mexican government allows (if not encourages) people to come here. And oddly enough, it's monumentally difficult for people to sneak across the border into Mexico from Guatemala or Belize.