Syracuse Ska Forum

Its an old cliche about the 3 most important things about going into business -- location, location, location.

And whether anyone likes it or not, putting on shows is engaging in a form of business. You rent a place, pay someone to do sound, agree to pay bands. But WHERE you do the shows is very, very critical.

I understand that the vast majority of those going to shows don't understand the problem with finding and keeping good venues. But it really makes a HUGE difference in doing good shows. The original Ska Is Dead tour stopped in Syracuse because Salt City was willing to host it under reasonable conditions. When they closed, along with Planet 505, that greatly limited our options, which is why Ska Is Dead 2 didn't stop here. And if I can't work things out with Tundra, SID3 probably won't happen here either.

Yes, I've looked into using The Furnace, but that venue has changed. There is no longer a PA there. 2 people are doing sound there now. One does okay sound for smaller shows and the other is the same person that does sound at Tundra that wants an arm & leg for doing a national tour. If I could think of a reasonable alternative, I'd pursue it, trust me.

And BTW, this is a national problem. All ages venues are getting harder and harder to come by, because they rarely make money and often attract problems. And making money doing live music is a very tough business, even under ideal circumstances. I'm always trying to identify new places for hosting shows, but its a long process of finding suitable space, earning trust from the owner/manager to actually let us use it and then hoping to make it work financially for both sides so we can keep at it for a period of time. The irony is that Ithaca and Rochester both have a more stable venue situation than Syracuse right now, but they both lack the enthusiastic local bands we have in Syracuse.

Like I said, I'm always open to new suggestions. But it helps a lot if the suggestions are based on something a little more than some offhand idea you had. Like talking to an owner/manager to see if there is any interest at all. The vast majority of places have NO interest whatsoever, because they see a lot of hassle and very little profit in it. In fact, live music can sometimes drive profits DOWN if the kids drive out the regulars and don't buy enough stuff to replace the money lost.

As Johanna said elsewhere, be glad to even have venues to bitch about.

And to respond to Ras Adam elsewhere, I'll talk to Klub Polski and some of the other places you suggested again, but the lack of enthusiasm when I've talked to them before was quite noticeable. They get burned really badly once and decide making $200-300 for a night just isn't worth the aggravation and/or property damage. I was told very emphatically that I'd have to hire a bunch of off-duty cops, which makes the whole thing too expensive. Plus, they want to make money off beer, so they really hate all ages shows. Its a vicious, vicious cycle.

Community centers like the Westcott are few and far between and typically very inflexible with scheduling. I was all excited about using the Northeast Community Center on Hawley Ave after AXCO had a good event there, but now the Syracuse City School District has reclaimed the space (it was always theirs in the first place) and they don't want these kinds of events there. Not that the location or cafeteria space were exactly ideal anyway.

The vast majority of all ages shows are either at youth centers, coffeehouses or non-profit facilities. The few large, profitable all ages spaces like Chain Reaction in Anaheim, California work off volume. They do really big touring bands and live off a cut of the door and ancillary sales. But that really only works because they're in a HUGE market (2 million in Orange County alone) and really have little competition. I seriously doubt a model would work like that anywhere in Upstate NY, sorry. In fact, I'm convinced that model won't even work in NYC. It needs a huge blob of surrounding suburbs to work.

Sorry if this comes across as an endless rant. I'm trying to find alternatives. I'm not giving up. But, it'd help A LOT if some of you were probing harder to help me find new spaces to use. And again, please don't simply babble obvious suggestions. Actually stop and talk to someone. They're usually quite flattered anyone would ask and they'll usually gently explain why they won't consider it. And no offense, but most of you have far more time for those endless rejections than I do. And having a sincere kid ask is often more disarming than me asking.

Help me find new venues, okay?

Thanks in advance!!!

What's wrong with Mezzanote?

It's very small and the owner really wants to sell liquor.

I realize they've allowed some all ages stuff there, but that's primarily during off hours when he can't sell any liquor anyway. I probably need to go back in person, because I'm getting nowhere on the phone with the owner. He remembers Skalloween, but he keeps saying how he wants to sell liquor.

I strongly suspect he's charging about what the Westcott is for all ages, which makes sense for him, but maybe not for us. It's an oddball location for most kids, that'd force us to do shows at oddball times that kids aren't used to.

Hardcore kids are so used to all that, it makes sense how they make it work. The ska kids so far are kinda spoiled and that's part of the problem.

But there's no way we could put something like Ska Is Dead 3 in Mezzanote. I'm figuring for 200-300 for that and can you imagine that many kids in that size of place!??! Plus, I'm guessing we'll lose kids because of the location and parents hating their 14 yr olds at bars (even if the bar is closed). You should have taken some of the many phone calls I got from parents about last Skalloween there. Quite a few were very unhappy with the venue choice ...

Well... my mind is coming up short of places to go in Syracuse city for venues. I keep flipping through the New Times for ideals and I keep running into blank thoughts. My only suggestion is a place or two where I live. The problem is CENTRO doesn't go out to Oneida and the local county buses have odd hours and don't pickup in downtown Oneida (yes, there is a downtown section in Oneida).

The first is a roller skate buisness, Awesome Fun-N-Skate, that attracts alot of young kids there, has plenty of parking, but I am not sure of their history of live music. The second is the Kallet Civic Center which is on Main St., has plenty of parking, easy to spot, a bar and a pizza shop across the street (for those "special" people). However they might be a little pricy, or maybe not since it is in Oneida and they had plenty of experience with various music acts. Oneida has recently purchased an old National Guard Armory and turned it into an Community Center. PA system may or may not be available, but is still only a block away from the Kallet and is easily spottable from the main roads. These three places have been in my head for quite some time with staging a ska show.

I know it may be a drive for some kids. Hamilton College, Colgate, and Morrisville are only 20 minutes away, which may or may not be a good draw. But with the casino only 5 minutes away, maybe the younger kids can talk their parents into gambling while they are at the show. I wouldn't suggest Oneida as a host if you weren't franticly looking for a place. I apologize if I'm throwing an odd suggestion to you, Danny. But I know you're scratching your head looking for a venue and this is the best thing I can come up with.

There's a place just outside of Baldwinsville called "Wacky Wyatt's", it's a Tex-Mex restaraunt. The stage is about the size of the one at 505 and there would be plenty of room if the tables and chairs are moved out of the way. They do have live acts play every now and then but nothing liek a show.

Last time I talked to CAB at RIT they aren't totally open to doing frequent shows at the RITZ. They are still doing a show every Friday for a buck, but I'm not exactly sure how the booking for that works. The bands are normally indie rock.

What about the office? It's pretty damn cheap to have smaller shows there. I think i read on the DIY collective's website that it was like $45 to have a show there. cheap and good. and if you're over 25 you can walk across the street and go hang out w/ crack dealers in Club DC!

go go gergie signing off!

The Office holds 50 people and Danny doesn't like it because he thinks the mommy's and daddy's won't let their kids go.

Honestly, Coffee Pavilion won't do punk or hardcore, because its too abrasive on their existing customers and the people upstairs. But they like ska there so far and it costs me nothing to use, so why should I pay for The Office, no offense? Punk and hardcore is happening there in part because most venues won't take them in. That's not our problem with ska, fortunately. It's just having very young kids. It's why I'm thinking using more coffeehouses would be perfect, like maybe Common Grounds in Cazenovia again. It worked pretty well in the past. But to be realistic, those shows need to be organized very locally, because small coffeehouse shows don't draw from very far.


Well, this is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. It'll be a LOT easier for you to follow up on this than me and let's be serious, the first ska show at the Ritz at RIT needs to be Upstate NY bands, which will only work if someone like yourself really promotes it. I'd be more than happy to help you with that, but the ball is in your court.


Talk to them and if you can, bring a burned CD of some ska bands you think they might be open to, like RazSum and The Benefits, for example. It's really best with places like that to start off slow and see how it works out first, ya know? Our first Salt City show was the Know How and The Benefits on a weeknight and that was a good break-in gig. But honestly, you just never really know who's open to what until you ask. I'd have never thought to ask Paula about using Wa-Noa, but fortunately someone else did ...


I've found that places that advertise live music in the New Times already are doing about everything they want with it already. Our best venues in the past have rarely advertised there (like 505 never did). But I'm open to shows in Oneida, but under the same circumstances like I mentioned above ... start off modestly and test the waters for both sides. The skating place could be ideal for some younger, local bands. Again, bring them some CDs to listen to -- otherwise they're thinking punk or hardcore and may be too jaded already. That's what I did with Salt City, honestly. They were deathly afraid I was trying to sneak a hardcore or punk show into their room.

# # #

Thanks to everyone so far for all the suggestions. All of the ideas mentioned have merit, but if they're not in Syracuse proper, it's really a case of not only finding a venue willing to let us do a show, but also of recruiting kids to even attend once we set one up. For that, there's really no substitute for someone (like yourself) that's already in that community to help set it up so it can actually work.

There have been successful ska shows in the past in Utica, Camillus, Skaneateles, North Syracuse, Cazenovia, Baldwinsville, etc., etc., so don't get hung up on some notion of "well, it'll never work in MY town", because that's probably not really true. Often the kids in the more outlying towns are extremely bored and more open-minded than you realize. They just want to have fun.

Let's keep working on this subject ...

I do not have anythign by the benefits to offer, so if anyone has something i can send then pleas let me know.I have both of Raz Sum's cds so thats not a problem.

Here ya go:

http://www.myspace.com/thebenefits
http://www.purevolume.com/thebenefits

Considering it will be warm out for at least another month, has anyone thrown around the idea of doing outdoor shows? I have to admit I don't have any suggestions about where to do it, but for our short summer it might be worth looking into.

It seems to me you are either faced with very small shows or medium sized shows. The small shows don't seem to be a problem, hell you could probably have them in a basement..although I have to say that creates a weird environment where I don't really feel like I'm "scene" enough to go.

I don't know if anyone is familiar with Buffalo venues but there is (or was?) a place out there called the Cruise Inn that was having decent sized shows (Voodoo Glow Skulls, The Stereo, Nerf Herder, Bigwig, so on). The place was really just a neighborhood dive bar, even at shows they'd still have their creepy regulars sitting back there at the bar. Aren't there some places like that around here? Places where they're fairly slow all the time and their regulars are oblivious to what's going on there. For a place like that, any crowd, even under 21 would be an improvement...
-Mike

One good thing about Rochester is that we have tons of parks for shows.

Oh, one other thing..What about Spark? http://www.640480.com/spark/ A friend of mine is involved in some of that stuff and I'm told you can have shows there...I think they wanted about $150 to rent it out for a night. It's in a good location on Fayette street, SU kids could walk down there no problem. Also, it is slow over the summer without most of the kids in town..so you might have better luck working something out now, even on a trial basis.
-Mike

Yea I've been to the spark and it is a nice space. There is a smaller room and a bigger room. I don't know exactally how many it holds, maybe 150-200? I don't know what the process would be for renting it but I could find out by contacting the people who have used it before.